Let’s Focus on Real Impact Now – Impact is a Journey, Not a Destination

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Brampton Gala Hall: Our offices are located on the traditional territories of many indigenous nations who believe in intergenerational responsibility for the well-being of today and tomorrow.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Now, speaking of our offices, you guys have all had the opportunity to start walking through our 3,800 or 38,000 square foot

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Brampton Gala Hall: event space at the end. When we have an opportunity to a networking feel free to come up to me, I can do a tour of the space, Give you information, and then do follow ups if you have any questions and introduce you to our O. And B team.

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Brampton Gala Hall: so i'd ask for everybody to turn off their phones. Enjoy yourself. You're with us for the next hour, so, as mentioned, we do have the reception afterwards. It's just coffee and snacks, so feel free to do that.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So without further ado, i'd like to hand over to our moderator.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Toby. Hot he heaps who will be looking after the rest of today.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Thanks.

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Brampton Gala Hall: thanks and thanks. Everyone for coming today. This is a fun topic. I first came across impact investing

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Brampton Gala Hall: around. 20 years ago, when I had this crazy idea to start up the magazine, a mass circulation print magazine about corporate sustainability, when print magazines were sort of just starting to go down the the after 2,000, and I was told to go to the main impact investor, and it was like, well.

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Brampton Gala Hall: somebody who wants to, you know, invest in in businesses. They're gonna make the world a better place in some way. And I thought, oh, perfect! I'm like. Do. They need to make money, too, and they're like, Well, yeah, usually they want to make money. So like, okay, so we put a business business plan together, met the guy, sat down with him.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Explain it to all to him, Joel Solomon, and as well. Fun of sort of one of the kind of like the granddaddy of impact investing in Canada and or the godfather. Yeah.

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Brampton Gala Hall: they're both interesting references, and and Joel do listen carefully to the business plan. And then he looked at me. He had to be on the head, and he said, You look like an energetic young kid. Why, don't you get all the money. You have. Put it in the paper bag and set on fire.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and and that will get you to your conclusion a lot faster than starting up the magazine.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and so I was like so so I was like. Does that mean you're not going to invest in? And so so he he's a subscriber now, though.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and the impact investing space has like

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Brampton Gala Hall: metastasized, you know. Now, when you look at the major venture capital firms.

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Brampton Gala Hall: it's hard to find when, without a significant sleeve of impact investing. And there's a lot of pure play ones. The pension funds are are in it. Some of the huge insurance companies, like cooperators are now sort of trying to get the the bulk of their. You know tens of billions of dollars of general account assets into it, and are in well well into the double digits in Canada on an annual basis. We we're looking at in the neighborhood of 126 billion

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Brampton Gala Hall: per year of investments required to to deliver the climate impact investments that we need to deliver on our on our commitments. Probably we're doing about a third of that. But still 50 billiondollars or upward to 50 billiondollars is or 40 billiondollars a lot of money.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And then there's there's a whole raft of things in the affordable housing and the social impact space, too. So the space is is huge. It's a runaway trade train. It's the it's driving growth and economies around the world now, and and the the trade offs that used to exist are not completely eliminated. But in many cases

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Brampton Gala Hall: it's now the best way to sort of to win you. Just if you want to win. Economically, it's it's it's the best way, and it's not not everywhere. And so we have an awesome panel. We're going to 2 panels. Actually, we're going to explore

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Brampton Gala Hall: 2 questions. One is, you know, impact investing, and it's sort of the the theme is, you know, in fact, investing now so like Krishna Murphy, the philosopher said, the Revolution is today, not tomorrow. So we're going to explore. Why Why do you impact investing, and that that involves

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Brampton Gala Hall: discussing what is impact investing. First, before we we're going to say, Why, why? And we have a great panel here of people who are really moving the needle in Canada on, and and are going to be able to share some great wisdom for us

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Brampton Gala Hall: after we'll have another panel. So there's it's a double double-card future that'll whammy on on how to do it? And so obviously these folks know how to do it, too. But so might have some inter interspersing going on.

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So i'll introduce the panel we have with us. Wait, Taser, who's the chief operating officer of Ready and Credit Union.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Ontario's favorite credit union. I've got my I've got. We've got all our I've I've moved my main account to Meridian before I knew about this panel. And and and now, now that you have the relationship with you trade, I can do all the self directed stuff on the R Esps, and everything, too, which is nice

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Brampton Gala Hall: and put it into impact investing. We have with us, like Liza Stiff, Who's the Vp of impact implementation

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Brampton Gala Hall: and innovation at Taz? Our our gracious host, i'm gathering those sty sandwiches. That's something to do with you guys. So thank you for hosting us today, and and for the good stuff that Tas is doing. We have also Joe Olgobi at the founding principle at Arch Angel ventures

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Brampton Gala Hall: so somebody who is getting into the angel in the detail, because it's always when you do it right that you get the you know it's better than the devil in the detail. When when you when you don't get it right.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and we have a Kelly gu to the President of Rally Assets long, long time

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Brampton Gala Hall: leader in the in the field. So a lot of wisdom lot of practical knowledge. So let's let's get into it. We have several questions. Now, this is a conversation. So you guys feel free to respond. And and yeah, we have some fun. But let's let's just start off with sort of

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Brampton Gala Hall: at a level set. Can you all, maybe just kind of in a elevator kind of style brevities, you know, minute or so. Maybe you're going up to the 50 of 4, so you have a little more time, 15 s. But what is, in fact, investing. Maybe it will start with you, Kelly. Kind of work our way down the panel.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Sure.

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Thank you for having me nice to be here.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So impact investing. I mean, we as impact investors follow the definition of the global impact investing network, which is the secretariat that oversees it. And there are 4 key components. So technically impact investing is looking for intentionality. So intentionality to create impact

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doesn't happen by accident. It's not a side product of what you do. It's your purpose. The second piece is, you are looking for financial returns on some degree of of market returns, and the third is that it's across all asset classes, and that's a major myth that it's only private investing that deals with impact. But the third tenant is, you can do it in every asset, class public equities and across your portfolio. And then the fourth is that it's measured so that that impact is measured. So there is quantifiability to the impact, not just hypothetical impact that's being generated. So so that's the the definition. Maybe

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my colleagues can give you a softer version. Now that I've taken that piece of with them.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yeah, I mean, I think of impact investing as intentionally

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Brampton Gala Hall: securing social and environmental outcomes in addition to a financial return.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I mean, I don't need to say ditto. I think you know all the line on on the the definition, I think.

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Brampton Gala Hall: for tas we're real estate developers. So what what that looks like for our business is really around.

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Brampton Gala Hall: You know we have a little. We have a little diagram, and it starts with us. It starts with our culture. It's so. You're investing in our culture. You're investing in our people, and how we how we do that through real estate and the lenses of our impact framework are around affordability and equity around environmental

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Brampton Gala Hall: and and again on social social impact.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yeah, and you know, I think it also has to align to your purpose as an organization. And so for meridian, you know, in the Fi space what we're focused on from an from an impact perspective is, is all of that plus. How do we help to build stronger communities? And, you know, help the equity. Deserving groups have access to to capital and advice

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Brampton Gala Hall: to be able to have the financial confidence that they need to to live their best life. So that's the not a spin, but that's the lens that we would put on it from a from a credit Union perspective.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And then, if you come.

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Brampton Gala Hall: why, why? Why is, in fact.

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But I want to

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Brampton Gala Hall: last week. So

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Brampton Gala Hall: yeah, I think you know what we've been trying to for, how we've been trying to frame it. Is it just good business, which is the approach. We start at the very top.

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and you know as a as a credit union. Right? We reformed as a as a cooperative, and you know we have 95 locations across the province, you know. We actually were started by fruit farmers in Niagara who couldn't access capital to to grow their businesses so really early example of an equity deserving group trying to do exactly what we're we're trying to do.

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But the good piece about that is, it's foundational for us because of you know how, where we started and and our roots. you know, from our perspective, when you know, when we go out to our employees and and talk about our organization. I just gotta make sure I don't mess the numbers up.

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Brampton Gala Hall: But for us it's a it's a cultural driver, right from a purpose. Perspective. So 88 of our employees said. They're proud to work at our organization. 90% said they feel good about the ways the company contributes to the community.

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Brampton Gala Hall: 85% feel that the work is meaningful, and 89% believe the company acts responsibly in its business dealing. So with that as a background from a values and cultural alignment perspective. We're then able to take that and leverage that and communities across the province. I'll share one, you know, one more example.

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and in 2,022,

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Brampton Gala Hall: our employees, 2,000 plus employees across the province, but

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Brampton Gala Hall: personally donated close to $500,000 for a number of local community causes which we then assign our our corporate matching programs, which turns it into about 1.6 million dollars for you know, impacting 600 nonprofits across the province in areas like housing security, food security, you know, in indigenous relationships those types of things. So

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Brampton Gala Hall: what we're able to do then is to, you know, to show impact within local communities that ladders right back up to the the corporate strategy which helps us build our brand, and that cultural alignment. So it's. It's deep for us from a why we exist perspective.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So it's coming out this this isn't about sort of the

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Brampton Gala Hall: but this isn't about the green box of the blue box in the corner.

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Brampton Gala Hall: This is something of this more foundational to like the motivation of your people and and and the core product and service, because I think sometimes it's a misconception. People think. Oh, impact investing

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Brampton Gala Hall: That's it's part part of it can be the philanthropy, but that's kind of the the rounding er of the the totality of it.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yeah, I mean, I mean in from a from a De-ibr perspective as Well, I mean, we know that having, you know, we invest in from our perspective, having

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a workforce that's representative of the communities that we serve right. So what that provides to us is, I think, a a much better understanding of the challenges in those communities, whether they be cultural or geographic as well as you know the the insight to be able to serve the needs of that community because because we are part of that community. So

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yeah, it's. It's definitely much deeper, and you know we we also do some fund investing. But but for us we look at the entire piece as as impact investing, and it's the small ones that add up as long as you're tracking them and measuring them so that you can talk to the broader impact right?

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Brampton Gala Hall: And that's where we've made some strikes recently up till up to last year in our first Esg report, when we had to baseline, I mean, we're doing all of this good stuff, and it wasn't going anywhere except local. So we weren't able to actually tell the story.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Blazer. I I just think it's so interesting to listen to you. Talk about sort of banking products and and financial products that that serve communities, and it's not dissimilar to our business, and that we serve communities as well. We are all humans in the room, and we all need to survive and thrive. And and

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Brampton Gala Hall: our opportunity, as Taz is that we deliver into with side by next to communities. And and there's really

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Brampton Gala Hall: there's really I

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Brampton Gala Hall: the right way to do it, and the only way we feel to do it. And it's very similar, though a different type of product that that we have.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So I don't know, if you want it.

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Brampton Gala Hall: The question is, why is it important.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So I think, if if we sort of.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I think to answer that question well, we suddenly need to take a little bit of a

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Brampton Gala Hall: longer term

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Brampton Gala Hall: journey to understand how where we are today. And so I won't. I won't give you a history lecture, but I mean, if you think of, if you think of.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I'll just point out a few key miles to. So you go go back to the Mid 1,600, the dust Dutch East, and your company is the first really global investor treated at

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Brampton Gala Hall: is registered as a as a cooperation with shareholders, and that kind of stays steady state until the post war era, and in the post-war era, talking First World War, one and Second World War. We really see the proliferation of corporations that take on 150

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Brampton Gala Hall: capital from outside sources, and apply that capital productively. We see that begin to really scale up.

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Brampton Gala Hall: as, as you know, part of a financial sort of innovation that begins happening in society along with technological innovation, and it really starts to amplify the results of

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Brampton Gala Hall: industrialization. And so we start seeing this social phenomena occur where middle class is. The middle class starts to really grow across a lot of the developed world.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and the growth of that middle class really sort of adds to the tax base that governments have. And it's interesting, because comments didn't really have an income-based tax

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Brampton Gala Hall: base before the turn of the century like it's maybe 100 250 years old that governments have been collecting income tax, and so that growth of the middle class has been really responsible for a lot of this that we see

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Brampton Gala Hall: right publicly available accessible services, high standards of health care, education. All the things that we take for granted are in part due to the results of investment in corporations putting that money to work

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Brampton Gala Hall: productively to sort of grow the middle class, and I think that what's happened since I would say, maybe

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Brampton Gala Hall: you know.

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Brampton Gala Hall: as as industrial technology has evolved, and we've gotten closer to you know. industrial revolution 3 now one to 4, we started to see a delamination of society where

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Brampton Gala Hall: more and more of the benefits are sequestered towards the top end of society. And there's this widening gap with the rest. And so that's leading to a lot of social conflict within some of the established societies. You have to look around kind of the Western world, and and see how some of this delamination is happening.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And so I think that

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Brampton Gala Hall: to answer your question, Why, it's important. It's important to fix some of this shit right? We have a lot of problems, and we have to sort of be able to retool the role of the corporation, the role of capital, the role of investors

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Brampton Gala Hall: in in in fixing this divide that is only growing.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and I think that there are lots of opportunities, and there are lots of ways to do that, and

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Brampton Gala Hall: it's it's up to it's up to us to sort of connect the dots and to stitch things back together, and I think that that's

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Brampton Gala Hall: primarily how this will happen.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And so I would just add to that that on top of that. So all of Yes, and

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Brampton Gala Hall: people get it today. And so I started when

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Brampton Gala Hall: Toby had a bag of money that he was ready to burn, and 20 years ago it was very hard to have this conversation. It was very hard to have this conversation in finance. You you have Bp. Dumping oil into the Gulf of Mexico and financial analysts across the market, saying: Environmental impact has nothing to do with the financial returns of our companies.

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Right as Vp. Stock is doing this right, so that moment, and that timing around now I don't know but the rest of you. But i'm pretty sure you're all having this conversation, whether it's at your dinner table, whether it's at work, whether it's with friends, environmental sustainability, inequality, you know equity and inclusion that is, on everybody's minds right now. And so it is a lot easier to be able to make progress on these issues than it ever has been before, and there's recognition to Joe's point that Government money, despite that tax base

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is not nearly enough

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Brampton Gala Hall: to solve these problems. Neither is philanthropy right? So you know, till we kind of call that out to wait. Like the philanthropy is important. The government money and commitment is important, but it's not enough, and so the investor capital has to be at the table and committed to solving these problems, or we will not fix them.

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So between the the understanding and the motivation and the willingness and the urgency, we need to

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Brampton Gala Hall: be bringing those things together.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yeah, yeah, there's there's so much capital outside of the Government sector. The government's got like the 50. We have 15 trillion of dollars of financial wealth in Canada. Just just are, you know, just the kind of 10 largest pension funds 2 trillion. Fortunately, in the pension sector you take the

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Brampton Gala Hall: the 3 largest insurance companies, the 5 largest banks.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And then, you know you're great. You're getting up into 10 trillion just just there, so it's the amount of money we have now to deploy. And it was interesting what you're talking about, Joe, basically you know, kind of capital is oxygen, and where capital flows is what we'll live, and where it doesn't flow, is what we'll die in.

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Brampton Gala Hall: It's been flowing to a lot of things that are hurting a lot of a lot of people, and also the planet. And now it's kind of coming back.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And I think there's a lot of people in this room, probably by predisposition that are inclined to want to believe that you know this in this impact investing narrative. But in you know, there's all we go back to the real world. We we're working with big big companies, and they'll be the accountants and the Cfos kind of looking. And and generally, when someone comes.

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Brampton Gala Hall: somebody who has, who asked money, and somebody comes and says, hey, have an idea how to how to make the world a better place.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Can you give me some money. You know the the sort of skepticism goes up, and because it's there's so much interest on the capital provider side. Now the there are a lot of it's a bit of a wild West. So there's some stuff that you know. Impact washing green washing there's a lot of this kind of and that can kind of

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Brampton Gala Hall: take confidence out of the space a little bit. And so it'd be kind of interested to get your perspective on. How do you kind of help

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Brampton Gala Hall: to be clear that what you're doing is is not green washing and and and give people the tools so that they can kind of get to that conclusion with their their own, you know, in in their own way.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So so for context, so so my company rally assets. We are an asset manager. We focus only on impact investing. So that is all we do so. The investors that come to us and the types of investments that we look at, we talk about it as being deep into the pool. And so when you go back to the definition of impact investing, we start with impact. Every investment that we look at. We look at from an impact lens first to screen and ensure that that impact is high enough that it meets our bar before we even look at the financials we are looking to earn returns for our investors.

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and within the range in which they expect, and that varies from investor to investor. But

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Brampton Gala Hall: but we always start with impact. So for us and that order of operations as you think about. You know, financial professionals, that you might work with that order of operations is very important, because if you start with the financials first and you become aligned to those companies, you start getting excited about those companies, you think? Well, this is a really great company that's going to have really good returns for me. And then what happens in what has traditionally happened in most finance and and due diligence circles is that

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that the impact is done last or it's a different team. So they do all the financial analysis that happens with the real team, and then they have an Esg person or an impact person that comes in and does the sanity check to make sure there's nothing, you know, really bad happening from an impact lens.

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Brampton Gala Hall: The decision has largely been made about what, whether this investment is happening or not. And it's really just They're looking for material Red flags.

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If you start from an impact, lens first and and impact investors all start with an impact lens first is to make sure that you're leading with impact, so that you're You're coming at it from an impact first priority, and that that's where your emphasis is, you can still then do all the financial steps and make sure that it's a good investment.

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But to Toby's point originally, you know, we are looking for investments where those 2 things are not mutually exclusive, and they don't need to be right companies that are leading in this space and and financial products that are leading in this space recognize that the ability to do better for the planet to do better for people like that's their competitive advantage. That's how they're more financially successful.

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Brampton Gala Hall: You give us like just a quick little antidote example story to to bring it to life about a company that is doing better financially because they're they're nailing the impact piece. Yeah, I mean, Well, there's whole sectors that kind of align to that right. But whether it's and so maybe maybe like, can I? I'll add some nuance to that. So you think about renewable energy. That's sort of the easiest, most obvious one, right? The more solar panels the Solar Panel Company sells, the more financial, the more revenue they're going to have, the better they're going to do financially. So that's one layer. And so there's a lot that's happening in that space.

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But you need to look deeper, and you need to think about that impact across multiple dimensions. So when we do an assessment of a company, we're making sure that we're looking at the diversity of that company we're looking at, You know you can have a solar panel manufacturer, for example, who is dumping their waste water into their local ecosystem. And so the communities in their area are being polluted by their activities. It could be hiring, you know.

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Brampton Gala Hall: child labor or in foreign countries they could be po paying, you know, below a living wage. There's all sorts of other things that can happen. And if you're just looking for that top line impact, you miss what's happening in the operations of a company. So you need to think about what they do, but also how they're doing it and sort of think along every impact dimension, regardless of whatever the the top line impact is so. In that case, if it's renewable energy, you still need to think about diversity inclusion. You know, workers, rights, and other things with

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Brampton Gala Hall: in that analysis. And so the Impact investor community will do that full, wholesome analysis as opposed to sort of that red flag check box at the end.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yes, sir. Jo: yeah. So how do you steer? Clear the green, wash? It's hard.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I'm sorry I I should prefer my remarks.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I I kind of don't know how to say anything other than what I think. So if I say something that doesn't solve politically acceptable, you'll excuse me.

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Brampton Gala Hall: It it's it's hard. but I think

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Brampton Gala Hall: it's hard to not greenwash. It's very easy to greenwash.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I think.

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Brampton Gala Hall: if I, if I can find my remarks to sort of looking at real estate and infrastructure, which is sort of my area of expertise. And you look at impact investing in real assets.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I think that we are at a unique point today where

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Brampton Gala Hall: we're, we're just at the

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Brampton Gala Hall: at the cost of this transition point, and the transition i'll describe the transition point like this. So

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Brampton Gala Hall: up to 2 3 years ago.

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Brampton Gala Hall: If all you were concerned with was a financial return.

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Brampton Gala Hall: you would you would be tempted to layer on claims about environmental sustainability, social sustainability as a way to sort of

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Brampton Gala Hall: do. Pr. Both to your brand, show some corporate social responsibility. But really what you were interested in

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Brampton Gala Hall: was the economics of the project

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Brampton Gala Hall: today. If you are developing real, you know real assets.

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Brampton Gala Hall: you cannot do it financially

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Brampton Gala Hall: without

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Brampton Gala Hall: properly integrating social and environmental means like that's how the environment has changed. So what do I mean by that?

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Brampton Gala Hall: Led by the Government, and to to some degree

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Brampton Gala Hall: the not for profit sector? It is more advantageous to your performer today to be able to to access lower cost of capital

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Brampton Gala Hall: through programs that really are promoting

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Brampton Gala Hall: environmental and social impact.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And so it doesn't make it it. It is no like, and I say it's a transition point, because I don't know how long this will remain.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Certainly there is. There is a concerted effort and strategy between, I would say, governmental and not for profit sectors to sort of create this ecosystem that would start to incubate more and more of these environmental and socially responsible projects that are producing good outcomes.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And I think the the the hope and the anticipation is that once we induce the industry to perform. In this week we'll be able to sort of sustain it. Right like the flight will effect will be momentum. We'll be able to sustain it, and that will become the new one.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And then private capital can flow much more efficiently to sort of like. Amplify those those feedback. So

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Brampton Gala Hall: it's it's been easy to greenwash, but today you absolutely shoot yourself in the foot if you try to do it, because there's no way to make your performer work today

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Brampton Gala Hall: unless you are actually doing those measurable creating those measurable impacts which is what will allow you to access lower costs and capital get abatement on regulatory charges, all the things that you need to do to make your projects work.

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Brampton Gala Hall: It's really interesting, and and you know, with the Us Inflation Reduction Act was really sort of just. It's just a call that, you know. You know, Green Green Bonanza Act.

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Brampton Gala Hall: an uncapped subsidies and tax credits of 300. The unca 367 billionIs the Government contribution that to be like another trillion, a private sector, investment over the next inside the next decade.

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Brampton Gala Hall: But it's uncapped. And so a lot of people now are looking at it like well, everybody's coming in and just investing it might be triple triple that you might be looking at, you know. 2 3 4 trillion dollars in total capital coming in, and the Canada is trying to was playing catch up, and Europe is coming in. So this is just like the there's a just a a lot of there's a whole sort of avalanche of money. It's kind of interesting. So on. On. On the on the green wash front

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Brampton Gala Hall: buildings is a huge part of greenwash.

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Brampton Gala Hall: We we've looked at the pension funds in Canada. The top 14 have to they claim 287 billion of impact investments, but 11% of their total, a half of it's in real estate, a little over half. And then we look. And what kind of real estate, you know, lead legal that counts as an impact investment.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So you have a gas in glass building.

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Brampton Gala Hall: It's lead gold, you know it sounds kind of good, but it's the gas and glass building being built today, you know, in a in a so how do you? In the real estate sector cut through the greenwash?

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Brampton Gala Hall: It's really hard.

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Brampton Gala Hall: It's really hard, because it's easier to tell a story than it is to really drill down on the numbers and go down into the weeds. But all the technical aspects of it. So it's way easier just to tell a really nice story. Make everyone feel good, and leave the room and have dessert and high 5. And

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Brampton Gala Hall: let's go home. It's a lot harder to actually understand what the what, what the destruction we're causing. When we're building materials to put in the ground, it's a lot harder to understand how policies, how economics we're, we're a resource, rich country, we we

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Brampton Gala Hall: we make materials for buildings. So it's really hard to really take a big.

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wide lens in terms of what what that really means, but on the flip side it's super easy, because there's a lot of math and science that goes into design and building, and there are technologies that we already use

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Brampton Gala Hall: when we design, and even when we we look at energy models. And I don't want to go too deep into all of that, because I think that's for the next panel. But but it's about having the data to really understand what you're doing. So, for example, the site behind us. If you Haven't looked, it's amazing.

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There's a huge deconstruction happening where some materials are probably being sold, the steel is being sold, and the the concrete being chewed up, and will be sold for a road resurfacing.

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Brampton Gala Hall: But but there's more more to that right. There's the the idea of. Can we reuse some of those materials can we be circular? What do? What is the value it's about shifting the value lens on those materials to really make a difference in terms of of what we're doing. I think, from the building operational side. We actually know a lot about that. And it's really about just shifting policy and changing the way we do that there have been.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Denmark has been fossil fuel free in the energy sector since the seventies, and they they had a I think they had a moratorium to switch every single family residential building in the nineties. So we know how to do that from the operational side. And I think we're we're

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Brampton Gala Hall: just catching up to Europe and some other places who understand what that means for the building construction side.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yeah. And maybe i'll come at this from a, from a a little bit of a different lens for us. But you know one of our challenges is in in serving our our business clients and our and of course, our our personal clients.

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You know, I think I think the message that I want to give is when you have your purpose, then you need to align and stay true to your purpose. So a real life example when we

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Brampton Gala Hall: you know we've we've got decisions to make around whether we're going to finance gas stations just to use as an example.

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And so that has a you know it, and it's not just about the the economic piece and in the environmental piece of that. But do we use our our precious capital there, or do we use it to help fund sustainable energy projects and affordable housing projects.

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Brampton Gala Hall: But but I think the other piece that has to come in here is, it does take some courage, so as an at when we released our Esg report, and our strategy got a very long, long letter from a Phd. Member who said, I don't understand why you're doing this. It's not your job

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Brampton Gala Hall: right so, and all kinds of reasons why it wasn't our job to do that. You know we're there to maximize returns and security for her funds for, or whether it's every time in June we raise the Pride flag in Niagara. I expect my phone to ring right, because we have some very

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far right pockets in this in this province. So it's it's it's about having the courage to stick to your path. I think we'll help

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Brampton Gala Hall: keep you away from some of those pieces.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Okay? Well, that was it's super helpful. We're we're kind of coming on to the end. But I think it'll be interesting just in a in a really kind of

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Brampton Gala Hall: truncated, you know, thinking like a couple of sound bytes. People are, you know, the way information flows and stuff. People might remember. You know one or 2 things that you said. If you're lucky. So what's the one thing that you want everyone here to remember on on. Why, impact investing is as we're paying attention to.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Okay. Well, first our start with the biggest impact that my beloved leafs can have is if they win tonight on the mental health of lease nation moving forward. you know, I I think, for us, and where we are in the journey. You know one of one of the things that that we that we're looking for through impact investing is actually getting into the ecosystem and learning.

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So when we You know, we we invest in a number of of funds that are impact funds, but we're very strategic about it's not just the investment. We actually want to connect with the companies that are that are in those funds to help to learn and engage and broaden

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our our impact through our learning. So that would be. One piece is not just the investment, but where other other pieces to for you to connect and build your capabilities.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I think that's a good point I think I would. What I would want to leave in this room is is just in a sense of urgency, and I really

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Brampton Gala Hall: I don't know. Maybe in the last 12 months wake up every day feeling like gosh! How many more projects are left in me, and I know that's dark, and I don't mean that in a dark way, but, like we only have so many projects.

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and we need to change the way in which we're doing it. We are stewards of this place of this land, and we need to to do better. And so I I.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I want to leave a sense of urgency that that we all can contribute and do better.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yeah, I I I would second that that that motion.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I think it's easy to be disconnected from impact and think that that's somebody else's domain.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Right that

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Brampton Gala Hall: the you know, the the the people who are in finance and control the capital flows. They are the ones who really will determine the way that society unfolds. But I don't think anything could be further from the truth, because

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Brampton Gala Hall: the people who

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Brampton Gala Hall: allocate capital are doing it with certain presuppositions in mind, and those presuppositions are all rooted in what they think you and I care about.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So

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Brampton Gala Hall: you know the the conscientious act that each and every one of us here can take.

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Brampton Gala Hall: We'll begin to create that pool of data that will speak to those capital allocators to see. Actually.

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Brampton Gala Hall: This is where the money is going. People are voting their values with their dollars, and that will just further

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Brampton Gala Hall: bolstered at flywheel effect. So I think you know the takeaway is recognize that impact. Is it? Just at the institutional investor level? It really does come down to the everyday person, consumer level.

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First and foremost

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Brampton Gala Hall: still, my thunder, so I your your voice matters. And so maybe, taking it one step slightly further, you. You are all your employees. You're probably pension plan members. And so

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Brampton Gala Hall: so we talked about the the importance of those pieces you have a say in pools of capital beyond, maybe, what occurred to you on a daily basis. So your consumerism matters the choices that you make matter at that. That is all important. But you also have a say in other pools of capital. And so you use your voice because those pools of capital are reactive to their members, to their employees and to what's happening. And so and that collective voice is incredibly important in keeping this conversation top of mind

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Brampton Gala Hall: and having corporations and large pools of capital, be actors and be proactive and be leaders right, you know. We let led with statistics around meridians, employees, and how they feel. They resonate with that that that that's a for anybody that's trying to hire people right now, very material in terms of how the movement of people and decisions that people make. So I think that you know I have teenagers who are feeling incredibly hopeless with our climate future right

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now. And so I think, for those of us that have those moments of hopelessness about where the state of people on planet are at.

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Brampton Gala Hall: You have to look for the the sunny side of it and find the ways that you can help, and the ways that you can be active and and take control back and take some power back in the situation, because there's a lot to be hopeless about, so i'm I'm always looking for the sunny side.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Well, thanks, so I guess people have the power. So you know you use your voice and and go leafs.

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Thank you, Jeremy, please, and thank you. Our panel for all the wisdom.

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Brampton Gala Hall: please, for the the panel Number 2 could could approach the station.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Absolutely

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Brampton Gala Hall: Sorry. I

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Brampton Gala Hall: Oh, yeah.

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Brampton Gala Hall: yeah.

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okay.

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Brampton Gala Hall: My favorite right. My favorite like My. Of course it's

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study like that. There's not

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Brampton Gala Hall: It's like.

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Brampton Gala Hall: yeah.

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I just recently talked to. Yeah.

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It's so. Oh, yeah. it's just

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yeah.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yeah, yeah.

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Brampton Gala Hall: yeah, I've seen them in the background with some zoom calls.

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Yeah.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Okay. Here.

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Brampton Gala Hall: yeah.

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Brampton Gala Hall: let's see.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Okay.

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Thank you. Okay.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So

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yeah.

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Brampton Gala Hall: yes.

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Brampton Gala Hall: It's all right.

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That's pretty.

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Yeah, I have something.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Okay.

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Brampton Gala Hall: That looks

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okay.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Hmm.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Okay, we're we're going to get into the panel. Number 2. I know it's good. It's good, everyone's discussing and we're

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Brampton Gala Hall: We're about to to start our panel. Number 2.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Hello!

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Brampton Gala Hall: It's working. Hello! Oh, are we are?

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Yeah.

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Brampton Gala Hall: But all right.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Okay? Well, now, we have everyone. Everyone fired up on on the why and so we're gonna get to the how

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Brampton Gala Hall: we've got a and a and another awesome panel. I'll go, I guess i'll go the opposite way this time, so we we have Suva, Jeff Lal, who's the president of Bullfrog Power, who has the the coolest corporate trademark

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Brampton Gala Hall: that I I've heard it. The the the the rivet from the frog. Everyone knows you know who you're talking about when you hear the ribbon

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Brampton Gala Hall: we also have with with us. Kate Murray is a director of impact and strategy and measurement at Tas.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Welcome, Kate, and we have with us at Jason Sukram, who's the engagement manager for Quin and partners that does a lot of work with some of the bigger impact investors.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and and then also happy to have with us that Leonard Ricard, who's the CEO of the Mississauga of the credit business corporation. So thanks for joining us, and let's let's jump into it. So

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Brampton Gala Hall: on the on the how we didn't. We talked about some real life examples, but I think it'll be really interesting if you could sort of through the eyes of your own business. Could just, you know, give a not not the sort of the corporate presentation. But just you know one real life example that really kind of

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Brampton Gala Hall: sh illustrates how impact investing works. So actually it's inherent in what we do at Bullfrog. Oh, first of all, thanks for the Intro and and Hi, everybody! But so inherent in what we do at Bullfrog is helping organizations and individuals

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reduce their carbon footprint. So, addressing their scope, 1 2 3 emissions, and that is doing the right thing, and then telling that story, and it pays off

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in that story as well to stakeholders to receive some fine financial return in terms of consumer goods sold because of the

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impact you're making and sticking with your values. Right? Tas is actually been a customer of ours for years, and i'm sure that has paid off in many ways with your whole base. And so one specific recent example. We not only do we sell renewable energy credits in the form of so environmental attributes associated with green electricity, green natural gas, green fuel.

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But we also advise our customers on entering Power Purchase agreements, and

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Brampton Gala Hall: I can give you a recent example. So we advise shopify who's a bullfrog powered customer for their own energy footprint. But we advise them on entering a Powerpoint agreement in Alberta, and we ourselves entered it, and They're now experiencing a financial return on the build of a new wind turbine.

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And in addition, they're addressing their scope to emissions with that. So there's a clear example of, you know, helping the environment, and also a a financial impact and a great story to tell.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. It might not come as a surprise. Given my title that i'll be talking a little bit about strategy and measurement as it relates to impact.

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But as Liza shared earlier, we have a impact framework that looks at for made commitments across our business, and the first is called it starts with us. So that's really looking at everything that we can do as a corporate entity to create positive impact.

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It covers things like social procurement, equity, diversity, equity, diversity, and inclusion. Among other major topics that you'll all be familiar with. And we actually have 3 project delivery commitments as well focused on environment, tackling, climate change, broadening social broadening, affordability and equity and building social capital

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Brampton Gala Hall: and moving forward from that in the how is really thinking, how do you operationalize these big ideas? And it can be a little bit overwhelming and difficult to get started.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and what we did is we actually broke each of those commitments down into quite a number of strategic activities, and so I mentioned social procurement as one of the examples. And with those strategic activities we're able to then figure out what is our baseline? What's our current performance. What's business as usual?

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Brampton Gala Hall: What are the targets we want to set? What are the objectives? And how can we start to move the needle and we develop policies and practices to support people across the business, and we also have a measurement framework that helps us track our progress and to try to continuously improve over time. So within those 4 commitments we probably have about 15 to 16 active strategic activities right now, and we just continue to build those out as the business evolves in the chairs. So

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Brampton Gala Hall: great. Thanks. Thank you for having me really happy to be here.

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So for my team equipment partners. What we do is we advise investors and corporates on how to embed impact and sustainability strategies into the way that they do business so to the point of the previous panel that we see this as the future of business and effective strategies and impact impact measurement, investment integration is the pathway to get there. So we work with investors and corporates, and we recognize that they're all at different levels of maturity. They're at different stages in their journey of this process.

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But when we talk about how to do this, how to get started, or how to evolve your practices we're thinking about. You know. What are the things that you can actually influence. So on the corporate side. And and there was some examples of this before. If you're a company that is trying to think about, how do you improve your impact? Maybe to

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attract investment? We're we're supporting companies by thinking through the various ways throughout their value change that they they they drive impact. So whether that's in their supply chain, or the way that they hire or or retain their employees through diverse and inclusion efforts, or operationally managing their environmental or social footprint. Where are the areas that you know traditionally from an Esg. Lens? They might be material financial risk to your business if you don't manage them.

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Brampton Gala Hall: But now, thinking more forward-looking, and thinking from it from a double materiality standpoint, what impact is that does your business have on people and the planet. What are the things that you can manage in your supply chain, through your employees, through your ownership structure, through your environmental and and social footprint management. How can you drive impact positive impact positive outcomes on your stakeholders through those

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throws through those lenses as well? And that's in addition to, of course, creating impactful products and services that improve people's lives and and improve the well being of the environment on the investor side. Similarly, we're starting to to work with our clients to say, what are the thematic areas where you, as an investor, can achieve additionality. One of those key components that we cited as a as a requirement of impact investing. Where are the areas where your investment is going to make a difference in the outcomes that are being experienced by the people and the planet. So what is the change that you can affect by providing

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Brampton Gala Hall: providing your capital to this company or to this fund? How do you actually think, through those criteria and those considerations. When you're doing your due diligence or creating your investment, management or performance management processes. So it's starting to look at the way that businesses have

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previously thought about sustainability and impact more from how it impacts the business, and shifting the thinking to how can we pull the leverage that we have access to. To. Now change the way that we do things in integrate impact considerations to improve outcomes for for our stakeholders.

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Brampton Gala Hall: To answer this question. I'm going to find some context. The sole shareholder of the business I work for is the Mississauga and the Credit First nation. We have a clear mandate to generate wealth for the nation.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Why are we generating well for the nation really to answer some pressing day to day issues? I was hired in mid 2,019 by the first nation to head up the the Devco.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and that my first meeting with the first nation government, was them articulating to me

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a laundry list of tens of millions of dollars in pressing infrastructure needs to the community

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Brampton Gala Hall: anything and everything from the need for housing, for water and sewer for a reliable Internet service. All things, I think most of us take for granted. I also.

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Brampton Gala Hall: you know, think about the backdrop here. The challenge for the Mississauga as well, is it? These are their homelands. They were once here. They were occupied here.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and at some point in the mid 18 hundreds. They were effectively pushed out of this area. and I would challenge you to identify anything behind me

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where the Mississauga has been able to benefit from

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Brampton Gala Hall: where I come from in Northern Ontario we're very fortunate to have a lot of space, certainly a hub of mining activity, and in those instances many first nations are able to reap the benefits and the rewards of development occurring in their homelands. That isn't true as much for the Mississauga's

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in the last century. As the city's been built up.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So for us, when we think about impact, we know that there's an immediate sense of urgency from our shareholder about their immediate needs. And for us we're frankly looking to

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Brampton Gala Hall: play off of, or you know, the emphasis on truth and reconciliation.

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Brampton Gala Hall: but also wanting to be seen as city builders. You know. I've put out the challenge earlier on to people in the real estate market in the energy sector around. We want to be active participants in that.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And we're here to facilitate that. And I think there's a lot more that's going to be happening in the future. But that's just some context of where we're coming from, and what we're looking to achieve. missing.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And just just curious on that. I'm just looking. There's been some big investments like i'm thinking 6 Nations and big huge power projects, and and I've heard from lots of there's different sort of

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Brampton Gala Hall: property rights that exist where you can secure credit more easily that some of these things are structured in ways that make it hard sometimes to, for for

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Brampton Gala Hall: first nations to participate in projects that are happening in their vicinity or their land. And I was wondering just on the how you see anything within the financial system where you know we have our friend wait here at Meridian, Another other folks in financial sector here like stuff that they're not doing that.

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Brampton Gala Hall: It's really dumb that they should think about changing because they have outdated assumptions. I'm not. Not a meridian is is is one of the leaders in this space, from what I understand. But I hear I hear stories all the time from first nations telling me about. You know how how difficult it is to to access funds for for projects that that are should be bankable

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Brampton Gala Hall: absolutely. I'll say that access to capital is generally been a major obstacle for many first nation communities, and really sort of a very specific on reserve tidbit around that. I will say that environment's really changed in the last. While I was just in Vancouver this week, and hearing from the Canada Infrastructure Bank

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Brampton Gala Hall: about a very specific way that they're looking to facilitate first nation, including inclusion in major projects, particularly with the emphasis on greener economy clean energy whatnot and their ability to have finance, Equity stakes by first nations in significant large scale projects.

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Right now we're in the midst of discussions on about 2 and a half 1 billiondollars in energy infrastructure being built here in Ontario. And you know again, we're seeking to participate in the economy. We want to build out the infrastructure. We want to be able to power the economic engine. That is the Gta. So there's significant things happening there, You know. I think, about discussions with Nrc. They have a clear mandate

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to also look at a national framework for supporting indigenous inclusion.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I think, in the looking at the the banks. That's a bit of a challenge for us in part due to issues around how to secure those loans. Typically, they'll ask for first nation guarantee of loans for their wholly owned enterprises like the the corporation I work for.

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So there's some nuances there that are a bit challenging with with the commercial banks. But I will say there are also other provincial mechanisms, things like the average and loan guarantee program for. But that's very unique to the energy space.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So there isn't a large scale solution that really sort of addresses.

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Brampton Gala Hall: We had the great benefit of being invited to participate in some large scale multi 1 billiondollar projects the issues. Where do we get our hands on that kind of capital? Because it is because of the size of it a real issue.

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Brampton Gala Hall: the need to see 2 and a half 1 billiondollars in pipeline. Kind of that, you that you're looking at projects. It's like. So

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Brampton Gala Hall: it's kind of getting bigger. And can. The infrastructure bank is nice to they. If they didn't exist, some would have had to and invent them, so that they're actually doing some. Co. It took them a while to get going, but they're doing great stuff, so I guess we

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Brampton Gala Hall: measuring and knowing if something is happening or not, there's so many metrics when we talked about some of the metrics here.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I know When we measure stuff, we have 25 keep forms, indicators, but we put 50 of the weight on 2 of them.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So i'm wondering if you know, like it's obviously the ones matter, you know, in contact, specific industry, specific, all that stuff. But are. Are there a couple of indicators like we can just sort of, You know, that some of your favorite ones that you can. You can tell if the numbers going up. You know it's good things are happening.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I I could take a first step at this. Are there a few? No, there are lots that's I think that's that's really the the answer is. And I think that this there's been a lot of debate even very recently, is, can we boil social impact down to a single number that you know the way that we optimize Ghg emissions or optimize reducing Ghg emissions has been a great catalyst for mobilizing the entire world around, affecting change in climate change. It's not

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Brampton Gala Hall: the same for for social impact. There's health issues. There's inequality. There's education. There's so many things that need to be tracked, and that we need to be measured. So my my view is, is, is no that there's not not a few. But there are

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Brampton Gala Hall: practices and strategies that are starting to emerge that make this more practical and make this more doable, and it's really about. As I came back to my previous point. What are you? What is the change that you're trying to influence? Who is the stakeholder? What effect are you trying to have? That is going to be a measurable improvement on that individual or that stakeholder group. And when you start with that lens of of you know who it is and what chain you're trying to affect. You can start to identify specific metrics if it's.

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You know you're trying to invest in in mental health. Maybe the metric is lowering distress. Maybe the metric is lowering, you know anxiety or symptoms of anxiety. These are things that you're starting to see. That's a an example from how tech venture and but investment space.

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Brampton Gala Hall: you know. I'm sure Kate and and others will have a lot of views on on metrics related to to real estate impact investments. But the the foundations are what's the effect that you're trying to have, and who the stakeholder is? And and what is the change that you're trying to see.

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Brampton Gala Hall: That's good. Say great for you, Eliza. Maybe one of you, you you you! You mentioned some of this earlier, but the kind of you know the If you could kind of hone in on on a couple, it would be nice. Yeah, No problem, I guess I I agree. The short answer is, No, there isn't just a couple of indicators that sum it all up nicely.

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Brampton Gala Hall: That being said, I think there's some really interesting work that's happening around monetizing social impact. I don't think that the the industry is there yet, and that the methodology is solid right now. Monetizing involves selecting proxies and proxy value, and the way that you do that can be quite

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subject to to interpretation. And so I think we're a number of years away from being able to put social impact into a dollar value that everyone can compare across investments and feel really solid about the information that they're analyzing.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So, taking a step back from that idea of trying to have one unit of measure. Some of the complexity that happens in impact measurement is that we have many, many, many units of measurement. So that's the first area of the challenge.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And then also there's a lot of nuance in the in what happens on the ground. So the angel is in the details, and i'll give a quick example, using greenhouse gas accounting. I think it that covers everybody's business.

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We've been working our embodied carbon accounting. And there's this great indicator around the tons of embodied carbon per gfa per square foot of ground floor area that's delivered. That seems like a really wonderful way to compare the embodied carbon across different buildings.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and even over time. But when you get into the details you might find that the substructure of a building, or the pilots that need to be driven in order for that building to stand require substantially more substructure than a building on another site.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And so over time you might end up having a spike in your in that indicator, even though you've reduced embodied carbon through a number of measures just simply because of the site, specific details. And so when we get into our impact measurement, we actually break down our body carbon number.

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Brampton Gala Hall: We do have a total one by Gfa, but we also break it down by substructure and super structure to help us to explain those details. So I went the opposite direction there to explain that

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Brampton Gala Hall: there isn't. But hopefully, one day we get to a couple of ones that help.

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Brampton Gala Hall: I guess, a slightly different interpretation. But from the environmental angle you're talking about measuring your Gg emissions. And then, if you're thinking about addressing them, making sure you're not just

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Brampton Gala Hall: picking something to measure that scope you're trying to address without thinking about quality. So i'm kind of shifting the question here a bit, but you probably have seen that there's so much murky stuff out there right. Amazon just got criticized for their forestry offsets that they bought, because are they truly additional and adding value right? Their companies getting attacked for

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Brampton Gala Hall: racks that they're buying from all Texas wind. Is that really truly additional? So? Yes, you could attach that to your scope, too. But is it really making a difference. So there's measurement. But then you need to get into the nuances to really understand if that's a quality solution to address what you're trying to tackle. So the point I just really want to get across is if you want to. Do

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Brampton Gala Hall: you know what matters just really focus on quality and transparency, and making sure that the story is is solid. Yeah.

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Brampton Gala Hall: yeah, I think that you guys will all kind of summarize it. But if it kind of weave it together. So we've been trying to struggle with this for 20 years here. How do you really measure this and with the waiting system with 25 kpis You're we're looking at carbon intensity for banks and from and for power companies but the wait for the banks because we're just looking at the

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Brampton Gala Hall: carpentancy from their buildings. It's really their trillion dollar loan book that, you know, is making them so wait for the banks is like 0 point, 0 one, and the wait for the power company is 20, so and you can get with environmental indicators. You can do that scientifically. You can say what's the relative intensity of the banking sector

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Brampton Gala Hall: versus the you know, with the entire economy, and it's you know it's 0 point 0 one, and that where it's the power sector is, you know, kind of a bigger, bigger piece of the social ones, you know. I think we're kind of we're getting closer on. The environmental and social ones are are are are tougher. So

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Brampton Gala Hall: okay, we have, for we have one more question, and it'd be I would be really interesting to to the theme. Here is how so? A bunch of folks here, I think, who've been inspired by your words, and with them in the other panel first step.

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Brampton Gala Hall: What's what's the first step to take if going down this journey, and you want to do impact investing what's what's what's step? One

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Brampton Gala Hall: should just answer with Robert. No, I think you know I've been doing a lot of thinking about this. But back to what was said in the first panel. It's like really knowing

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Brampton Gala Hall: your purpose and your values, and what you're trying to solve. And then, you know, we all want to live

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Brampton Gala Hall: at peace with ourselves, and we want to die gracefully. So making sure that you're truly understanding your purpose and doing what you feel is

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Brampton Gala Hall: really addressing that purpose with meaningful change. So

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Brampton Gala Hall: anyway, i'll save a bit again.

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Yeah, that full procure was one of our first steps. So everyone please consider taking that step. I think that

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Brampton Gala Hall: you know you do have to set your strategy and your ambitions, and this is a decades long. If not.

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Brampton Gala Hall: you know eternal sort of approach that we need to be taking. That being said. You can take steps today tomorrow, start thinking about the things that are universal across the business. I think social procurement is one that we can all start making a difference really quickly.

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even just understanding where you, the spending power of your business is going, and how you might be able to help, you know, build capacity and and create new supply chain opportunities for your business.

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and then just break those big

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Brampton Gala Hall: ideas down. So this idea of strategic activities breaking it into smaller components and chipping away at one at a time. You don't have to do it all this year, all next year you can have a strategy around it, and once things start to become business as usual, you can move on to other priorities. So just get started.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Yeah, I I think what i'm. What i'll say is gonna overlap a lot with what Kate said. But it's really finding the connection between

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you know the problems that the world is facing the challenges that the world is facing, and the things that your business or your investment thesis is uniquely positioned to solve. And so it's based on your purpose as an organization. It's based on your organizational values, but it's also based on the industry in your that you're in the sector that you work in

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what the trends in your industry are, and what you, as a business or an investor, can influence change on that aligns with these global challenges. And there's frameworks out there to to help map that out. That strategy, that theory of change on on what it is that you, as an organization, can actually, intentionally and additionally contribute to in terms of

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solving those problems. So start with finding where that connection between the world's challenges are, and what your business is capable of of of of addressing.

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Brampton Gala Hall: In my experience I find people tend to hesitate around engaging with first nations for sanctions, businesses, in part, because they don't want to offend. They don't know what to ask.

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and they don't know where to start. I i'd suggest to this room today that if you are interested in working with the first nation community. You can do a couple of things. There's some amazing resources out there. The first one I'll point to is a toronto-based organization called the Canadian Council for aboriginal business.

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I was formerly on the board of directors for that organization. You're doing some great things, including something called the progressive Aboriginal Relations Program, I think to be a great resource, a great forum for, like minded people.

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Brampton Gala Hall: my colleague, Chris and I were just in Vancouver attending the first nations major projects, coalition, 1,500 delegates representing governments, international governments.

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a large large industry, players, and first nations.

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Brampton Gala Hall: and the whole discussion in that form is really about. How do we all work together to build big things and do great things together?

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Brampton Gala Hall: So that's the second thing i'd say is like. There are forums like that that you can participate in and attend and and hear from other industries here, from other businesses about what's working in this space what hasn't it worked. And again a great place to meet other like minded first nation business focused people.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Finally, i'd also just say, don't be shy about giving us a call, knocking the door, sending an email. Chris and I spend a lot of our time sitting down, one on one and talking through understanding what your business is, what are we looking to achieve?

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And finally, i'd say, don't be afraid about having difficult discussions. I'd rather have a difficult discussion about what your limitations are, what you can't do rather than us wasting weeks or months of each other's time.

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Brampton Gala Hall: if a deal isn't to be had, so there's some practical things i'd suggest. I'd share with you today.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Well, thanks a lot. Yeah, we learned in the first panel, everyone. I can be an impact investor. So if it makes, if if it's, if the world needs it, and it makes sense, then you know what's the what's the argument to not do it, and the first step

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Brampton Gala Hall: to to doing it. It's a simple question that you all sort of give the bits of wisdom on which is asking that question, what is the central thing that my business can do to move the needle on something that matters.

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Brampton Gala Hall: And and that's that's basically I think the the conclusion. Now we're gonna have some opportunity to just talk you into human and like to invite you to to to give it one round of applause for our panel. Thank you.

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Brampton Gala Hall: he.

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Brampton Gala Hall: So

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Brampton Gala Hall: there's we could do questions to the

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Brampton Gala Hall: or any.

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because everybody

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Brampton Gala Hall: There's also a networking

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Brampton Gala Hall: that side. If you guys have questions, it's been a really

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thank you to everybody for your

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Brampton Gala Hall: distribution.

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Brampton Gala Hall: The floor, If there's any

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one of conversations, obviously

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Brampton Gala Hall: all right.

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one.

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Brampton Gala Hall: Okay.

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Brampton Gala Hall: let's do it.